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Post by ageingstudent on Mar 24, 2017 7:53:27 GMT -5
Well finally got the Winchester to the range yesterday.Had three loads of IMR 4227 with 17,18 and 19 grains loaded up.All loads worked well, with no failures to eject.Rifle was fun to shoot.Because of the blow back system used on the rifle, it had a different feel than any other self loading rifle I have fired. Accuracy at 50 yards was good for hunting,but were not clover leafs.:)The AR 15 shell catcher worked well and saved having to look for fired casings. With the right load for the gun you should be able to get groups like this at 150 yards. This one is just over 1.5". If I do a 10 or 15 shot group I can usually keep it to about 2". Attachments:
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Post by bollweevil on Mar 24, 2017 8:21:38 GMT -5
Ageingstudent, that is some really good shooting. Were these with your cast loads? do you know about how fast these are? 28 gauge, my fault, I meant to say Tang sight. I would't want to drill mine either. I have looked at a few tang sights on ebay but haven't been able to talk myself into spending that much yet. There is some good information about these sights in the forum.
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Post by 28gauge on Mar 24, 2017 12:09:34 GMT -5
Well I guess we were both, are not just perfect, as I have heard them called a tang peep sight at times.When you said a peep sight, I thought a side mounted sight,but it could be tang mounted as well.Is there a certain make and model number for a tang peep sight for the Model 07? Loaded up the .351 cases today with 17 grains and the Jamison brass.When I loaded these cases the first time, the bullets all fitted tight.This time ,although I find you cannot push the bullets in or pull them out ,you can turn them with your fingers.I believe I read or was told ,that a Lee 357 crimp die would fix that.Even if you can turn the bullets with your fingers ,I cannot see this causing any trouble with the shooting of the cartridges or would I be wrong on that belief? Yes, ageingstudent that is very good shooting,indeed.Not quite a clover leaf,but getting very close.
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Post by ageingstudent on Mar 24, 2017 14:44:49 GMT -5
Yeah that group there is just a powder coated 158gr flat nosed cast. I haven't had a chance to set up my chrony on those yet but I'm thinking they are in the 1500-1600fps area. That's just stock sights resting on my range bag. The rear sight is on the second notch up from the barrel at 150 yds and you get a nice 6:00 picture poi hitting about 2" above poa.
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Post by ageingstudent on Mar 24, 2017 14:51:02 GMT -5
Well I guess we were both, are not just perfect, as I have heard them called a tang peep sight at times.When you said a peep sight, I thought a side mounted sight,but it could be tang mounted as well.Is there a certain make and model number for a tang peep sight for the Model 07? Loaded up the .351 cases today with 17 grains and the Jamison brass.When I loaded these cases the first time, the bullets all fitted tight.This time ,although I find you cannot push the bullets in or pull them out ,you can turn them with your fingers.I believe I read or was told ,that a Lee 357 crimp die would fix that.Even if you can turn the bullets with your fingers ,I cannot see this causing any trouble with the shooting of the cartridges or would I be wrong on that belief? Yes, ageingstudent that is very good shooting,indeed.Not quite a clover leaf,but getting very close. You can give the case more neck tension by running the case just to bullet depth before loading in a .380 or 9mm die. Better neck tension = consistent pressure = consistent function and better groups.
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Post by 28gauge on Mar 24, 2017 20:03:44 GMT -5
Just wondering if you have ever had a problem with loose bullets in the 351?The 380/9mm seems like it might work better than the 357 crimp die.Perhaps one would work as good as the other?
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Post by ageingstudent on Mar 24, 2017 20:59:49 GMT -5
I haven't personally, because I use a .357 die to full length size and use a .380 to size just the neck to about .35 down from the mouth. I have read where some of the custom .351 dies don't quite size the neck down enough to get the bullet held firmly. So it sounds like the issue you're having isn't unheard of. If you were using a cast .352 bullet it might be tighter also. For myself, i'd rather rely on neck tension to hold the bullet than crimp.
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Post by 28gauge on Mar 25, 2017 7:51:10 GMT -5
Thanks for that,ags.Hope to get to the range this afternoon.If so, I will try the cartridges I have loaded to see how they work.Do not have pistol dies of any kind.If the cartridges do not work well, I will have to look into getting something.
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Post by ageingstudent on Mar 25, 2017 8:08:38 GMT -5
You're very welcome sir. If you decide to go that route I prefer the .380 sizing die over the 9mm as the .380 is not a tapered case. With those bullets held more loosely in the case check the last one in the magazine to make sure they aren't moving in or out of the case under recoil.
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Post by 28gauge on Mar 25, 2017 9:02:13 GMT -5
Will do.Although the bullets can be turned with your fingers,I have tried to push the bullets in,but they do not push in.Seems like the crimp although some what loose,it holds tight enough so the bullets do not move back.
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Post by 28gauge on Mar 25, 2017 16:43:25 GMT -5
Just back from the range.Nice ,calm and sunny when we first arrived at the range,temperature of about 5 C.As the afternoon wore on ,the wind came up and the sun clouded over and temperature dropped. The wind made it less favourable for good shooting. The Model 07 worked flawlessly .Had several less than 2 inch groups and several just over 2 inch groups.Much better than I did the first time out.Did have some groups with flyers.Most likely, my shooting was the fault. I believe a non factory front sight would work well on this rifle,such as a Lyman gold bead sight.Would be an improvement over the factory one,which I find a bit big. Also had a Winchester Model 190.22 calibre self loading rifle and a Winchester Model 64 lever action .32 Special rifle to the range to shoot as well.My buddy had .22 calibre Martini Henry single shot and a Ruger self loading .44 Remington Magnum rifle to shoot.All in all a nice afternoon and a nice way to spend some time.?)
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Post by ageingstudent on Mar 26, 2017 11:56:01 GMT -5
Sounds like the best way to spend an afternoon to me. Lots of history there.
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Post by bollweevil on Mar 26, 2017 19:22:29 GMT -5
Yes it does sound like a great day at the range. My Redding dies were really tight. I had read of the loose bullet seat with others, so I went to the other extreme with a die that was too tight to resize, sent it back, they opened it up a few thousandths, and was then able to load. They still require extra attention wile sizing, but have no issues with bullet tension. I am using a Lee factory crimp on some, but it is just and extra step to hopefully create consistency. I never tried the pistol dies, but looking back probably would have. That model 64 .32 special sparks my interest. I have a pre 1964 model 94 .32 special that was my 1st deer rifle. I Love that gun. It has a marbles compass in the stock. I carried it for many years when I was growing up. I do not ever plan to part with it. Sounds like agegingstudent knows the ropes on these .351 loads. I think i need to pay better attention in the future.
Chris
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Post by bollweevil on Mar 26, 2017 19:34:03 GMT -5
28gauge, I sent a personal message.
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Post by 28gauge on Mar 26, 2017 20:18:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies fellows.PM sent back.The cartridges seemed to work well,even if you could turn the bullets with your fingers.Perhaps at the next gun show I will look for a cheap set of 9mm or 380 dies ,so I can use the sizing die on the 351.I suppose a 351 file trim die could work as well,but I think they might be hard to come by.
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