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Post by 28gauge on Feb 11, 2017 15:05:12 GMT -5
Picked up my first vintage self loader recently,a Winchester Model 07.A 50 round box of Winchester .351 shells came with the rifle.The rifle is late manufacture.From the serial number it was made in 1957,which I understand was the last year of production.Rifle is in excellent condition.
At present I have .351 RCBS dies and have .351 Jamison brass on its way to me.Have IMR 4227 powder and load data from an old Lyman number 45 load book.Waiting for .351 bullets to get back I stock and these will be on their way to me as well.Looking forward to loading up some new .351 Winchester shells.
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Post by bollweevil on Feb 12, 2017 14:02:27 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan. Keep an eye on the primer pockets of the Jameson brass after firing. I've noticed that if the rifle has a "loose" chamber, as many of these do, the pockets expand too much after 1-2 firings that they can't be reused. I talked to Jameson about it as all of my brass was the same batch. The pockets measure out near max as new. Hopefully they will get this corrected. I also had to send my Redding sizing die back and have them open it up just a bit. I had heard of others having to do the same. Have not read of this issue with RCBS dies.
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 12, 2017 17:47:14 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan. Keep an eye on the primer pockets of the Jameson brass after firing. I've noticed that if the rifle has a "loose" chamber, as many of these do, the pockets expand too much after 1-2 firings that they can't be reused. I talked to Jameson about it as all of my brass was the same batch. The pockets measure out near max as new. Hopefully they will get this corrected. I also had to send my Redding sizing die back and have them open it up just a bit. I had heard of others having to do the same. Have not read of this issue with RCBS dies. Thanks for the heads up on the .351 Jamison brass.I could get the .351 Jamison brass at $54.00 Canadian for 50.Could also get .351 Bertrum brass at $110.00 Canadian for 20.The Jamison seemed a better deal.Perhaps it is not quite as good a deal ,if all you can get are 1 or 2 loads out of it.
The .351 SL RCBS dies I bought were listed as used on e bay.When I received them,I have my doubts they were ever used.The rings were not locked in place.Any one who would have used them ,would have locked the rings in place ,so they would go to the same spot in their loading tool the next time they were used.
All my dies are RCBS except for an old set of Lyman .405 Winchester dies .
Do you shoot your Model 07 rifles much?
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Post by bollweevil on Feb 12, 2017 19:03:41 GMT -5
Just started shooting my recently purchased one this past fall. My other one has not been fired in over 50 years. Was bought by my grandfather and shot (I was told) 8 times. I have a box of factory Remington ammo minus 8 that I got from him. The other is my newest acquisition. I have shot it quite a bit as weather has cooperated. Shot a fair amount of the factory loaded Jameson ammo that I found online. I also am playing with some loads with the Graff's 180 plated and Hawk 180 that Mr. Speckin mentions in his book. Just been using 2400 and 4227 powder. Tried to find some primers with maximum diameter due to the problems with the Jameson brass and my rifle. I am also using some 360 DW brass that I like really well. I ended up going with some pricey CCI BR4's. I wanted to harvest a deer this year with the rifle, but got too late of a start. I plan to make this gun one of my normal tag-along rifles on the farm. I am 47 and have been intrigued by the Model 1907 all my life. I wish I had started gathering them earlier when they were much cheaper. I remember back in the '90's passing up a mint one for $300. I have collected the .351 ammo through the years, and have a stash that I will never shoot. Got lucky in Corinth, MS, last friday and bought a box of 1980's Winchester 180 soft point for $60 at a pawnshop. These will be shot, and the brass reloaded. You never know what you might find!!!
Good luck with the rifle. I hope that I can help you as much as I have been helped by others with similar interests!!!
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 12, 2017 20:48:07 GMT -5
Many years ago I purchased two 50 round boxes of Dominion .351 shells.This would have been back in about 1973.Paid very little for them.They and some other old shells were at the back of a general store on town.Bought the .351 boxes,a box of .401 WSL,box of .45-70 and one of .25-20.I would say the boxes had been there for a long time.After many years of never getting a Model 07 ,I figured I would never have one.A fellow up country ,wanted the shells for his Model 07,so I finally sold them to him.Not the smartest move I ever made.LOL
A few years ago while at a gun show ,I spotted a box of 20 Dominion .351 shells.Had never seen a box of 20 .351 shells.Those I have seen have all been 50 round boxes.So I bought it.Have you ever seen old 20 round boxes of .351 shells?
Did you get the CCI BR4 primers because they were wider diameter than the other primers?The primers I have at present time are Winchester.
Most all the Model 07 Winchesters I have seen, look like they have been through the Boar War.Pretty rough shape.The one I recently purchased is the best one I have ever seen and is in excellent condition.It appears to have had very little use.
Its great talking with you about the Model 07.You have a couple of these rifles and have experience in shooting and loading for them.Most have never heard of the rifle.
Have not gone deer hunting for over 20 years now.After Dad passed on, I sort of lost interest in it.Still do a little duck ,partridge(ruffed grouse)and rabbit (snowshoe hare)hunting.
Nova Scotia,Canada
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Post by bollweevil on Feb 12, 2017 22:43:01 GMT -5
I have never seen the Dominion cartridges. All I have are older Winchester and Remington 180 grain soft point and full jacketed in 50 round boxes. There is a fellow on Gunbroker who sells some 20 round boxes that are new production hunting ammunition but I can't recall the name of them. They come in a tin box. Wouldn't mind having a box for collecting, but never purchased any.
I got the cci primers due to the published outside diameter being slightly larger than what I had on hand, but I am unsure if it will be enough to matter. I had been using Remington 6 1/2 and some older Federals small rifle.
It sounds as if you did really well on your rifle. Most all that are out there are really rough specimens. Hang on to it!
Please do not hesitate to message me if I can be of any assistance. I have only gotten thus far by help from others. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum.
It was great to talk to you also. The older I get, the better the friendships and conversations get.
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Post by ageingstudent on Feb 12, 2017 22:59:14 GMT -5
Hi 28 gauge,
Do you have access to a small metal lathe by chance? I turn my own brass out of .357 mag cases. They are only .09 short but I'm having very good results with them. I'm getting at least 5 loadings out of them and it makes for cheap plinking ammo I can actually afford to shoot. Bonus is you never have to trim your brass:).
I have a late model 1953 I think by the serial #? It's in really excellent condition too. It's become one of my favorite guns to shoot and reload for.
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 13, 2017 9:25:23 GMT -5
Hi 28 gauge, Do you have access to a small metal lathe by chance? I turn my own brass out of .357 mag cases. They are only .09 short but I'm having very good results with them. I'm getting at least 5 loadings out of them and it makes for cheap plinking ammo I can actually afford to shoot. Bonus is you never have to trim your brass:). I have a late model 1953 I think by the serial #? It's in really excellent condition too. It's become one of my favorite guns to shoot and reload for.
Hello ageingstudent.,thank-you for the post.No afraid I do not have access to a lath. Yes, not brass trimming would be a good bonus.
How long have you had your Model 07?
Picked mine up at a small gun shop about an hours drive from home.The rifle was there on consignment.The shop owner said I could make an offer if I wanted.I went home and thought about it.Then called and made an offer.The shop owner contacted the owner and he took my offer.A 50 round box of Winchester shells went with the rifle.
Story on the rifle.A fellow's brother had passed on and left him a bunch of firearms.The brother who received the firearms had no interest in them,so put a few of them for consignment sale at the gun shop.When I paid for the rifle I happened to notice the name on the envelope the store owner was putting the money into.I knew the last name and knew a fellow gun friend had passed on recently with the same last name.I asked if the fellow's name who passed on was so and so.the owner said yes.I told him I knew the fellow quite well.Knew he had a lot of Winchester Model 94 carbines,but did not know he had a Model 07.He must of purchased the rifle since I had been talking to him.
He was a very nice fellow, always smiling and laughing.I remember one time he gave me a 28 gauge ball mould and some balls he had made with the mould.Not everyone who would do that for you.I still have the mould and some of the balls.Nice to have a rifle as well ,that once belonged to him.Something else to help remember him by.Had missed him at the last two gun shows and when I ha asked about him ,I was told he had cancer.
He will be missed.I always enjoyed meeting him and talking with him.
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 13, 2017 9:41:42 GMT -5
I have never seen the Dominion cartridges. All I have are older Winchester and Remington 180 grain soft point and full jacketed in 50 round boxes. There is a fellow on Gunbroker who sells some 20 round boxes that are new production hunting ammunition but I can't recall the name of them. They come in a tin box. Wouldn't mind having a box for collecting, but never purchased any. I got the cci primers due to the published outside diameter being slightly larger than what I had on hand, but I am unsure if it will be enough to matter. I had been using Remington 6 1/2 and some older Federals small rifle. It sounds as if you did really well on your rifle. Most all that are out there are really rough specimens. Hang on to it! Please do not hesitate to message me if I can be of any assistance. I have only gotten thus far by help from others. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. It was great to talk to you also. The older I get, the better the friendships and conversations get. Years ago there was the old Dominion Cartridge Company.they were bought out by C-I-L and for awhile still made ammunition under the Dominion name,with C-I-L marked on the boxes as well.In time the Dominion name was dropped and the shells became C-I-L Imperial.C-I-L was bought out by I-V-I. I-V-I made ammunition for awhile, then sold out to General Dynamics.General Dymanics still runs the plant,as far as I know,but only sells to the military. Seems I saw some where, on the internet, the new manufacture 20 found boxes you speak of. Please let me know how the CCI primers make out in the 351 Jamison brass.If they prove out, I will get some of them. Yes, I believe friendships seem to mean more as we get older.I am at the age now where a lot of my older friends have passed on and some of my friends ,my age are leaving us as well.Two years ago I had two friends,who I had been friends with from childhood pass on in about three months of each other. No hunting buddies left.Those I use to go with have either died,moved away or just do not go any more.
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Post by ageingstudent on Feb 13, 2017 19:31:37 GMT -5
Hi 28 gauge, Do you have access to a small metal lathe by chance? I turn my own brass out of .357 mag cases. They are only .09 short but I'm having very good results with them. I'm getting at least 5 loadings out of them and it makes for cheap plinking ammo I can actually afford to shoot. Bonus is you never have to trim your brass:). I have a late model 1953 I think by the serial #? It's in really excellent condition too. It's become one of my favorite guns to shoot and reload for.
Hello ageingstudent.,thank-you for the post.No afraid I do not have access to a lath. Yes, not brass trimming would be a good bonus.
How long have you had your Model 07?
Picked mine up at a small gun shop about an hours drive from home.The rifle was there on consignment.The shop owner said I could make an offer if I wanted.I went home and thought about it.Then called and made an offer.The shop owner contacted the owner and he took my offer.A 50 round box of Winchester shells went with the rifle.
Story on the rifle.A fellow's brother had passed on and left him a bunch of firearms.The brother who received the firearms had no interest in them,so put a few of them for consignment sale at the gun shop.When I paid for the rifle I happened to notice the name on the envelope the store owner was putting the money into.I knew the last name and knew a fellow gun friend had passed on recently with the same last name.I asked if the fellow's name who passed on was so and so.the owner said yes.I told him I knew the fellow quite well.Knew he had a lot of Winchester Model 94 carbines,but did not know he had a Model 07.He must of purchased the rifle since I had been talking to him.
He was a very nice fellow, always smiling and laughing.I remember one time he gave me a 28 gauge ball mould and some balls he had made with the mould.Not everyone who would do that for you.I still have the mould and some of the balls.Nice to have a rifle as well ,that once belonged to him.Something else to help remember him by.Had missed him at the last two gun shows and when I ha asked about him ,I was told he had cancer.
He will be missed.I always enjoyed meeting him and talking with him. I've had mine for a couple years. I also bought mine from a small shop. The owner had bought it at a small PD auction in Minnesota, so its a former police model. It has a light mark on the barrel where it sat in the rack for years:P. But they obviously took good care of it because there is not pit one on the barrel and the bluing is in excellent condition. I got interested in self loaders because my step dad has a .401 and I made him some ammo a few Christmases ago as a present and got hooked.
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 13, 2017 20:59:56 GMT -5
The Model 07 I recently purchased is the first high power self loading rifle I have ever owned.Mostly into lever action big bore rifles.Have owned some self loading .22 calibre rifles.
Had an Uncle who owned a .401 at one time.He told me the one he had was unreliable in cold weather.Do not know if this was true for them all or just that one.Perhaps he used too much oil or the wrong kind of oil, for cold weather in a self loader.Don't know.
For some reason the Model 07 .351 has always been of interest to me.Not quite sure why,but it has.Now after all these years,I finally have one.Now just have to get it shooting.That could be awhile as we just had one heck of a snow storm.More on the way for Wednesday as well.I expect the range is under 3 feet of snow on the level about now.More so in the drifts.
Nice to have you and ccraft to talk about the Model 07 with.
Nova Scotia,Canada
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Post by bollweevil on Feb 14, 2017 21:55:58 GMT -5
Ageingstudent has a good plan with the 357 M brass and cast bullets. I seem to be settling around 17 gr. Of 4227 with 180 plated and jacketed soft points. Ran several through the chronograph yesterday along with some Jameson factory loaded rounds with a 180 grain Speer hot cor resized to 351, and the factory winchester rounds I picked up last week. I do not cast any projectiles for the 351 because I do not have the correct mould. Accuracy was great with each, but winchester factory was much faster (avg about 1950 fps) and shot about 5" high at 50 yd. The best groups were with my Hawk bullet, factory Jameson next, Graff plated, then Winchesters. My loads and the Jameson run about 1680 average with about 1" to 1 1/4" @ 50 yd. I was happy. The 2400 had not produced near as good groups and seemed rougher on the action.
28 ga, I told my wife about the snow in Novia Scotia. She is really jealous. If we are lucky, we get a few inches a year. I'm in NW Alabama just minutes from Tennessee and Mississippi. We have seen extremes this winter in weather, but no moisture with the cold. My closest geographical knowledge of your area comes from watching "the Curse of Oak Island", which I'm doing tonight. Beautiful country!!!
Y'all take care. Chris
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 15, 2017 9:35:18 GMT -5
Well to tell you the truth,if I could I would send all this snow to your wife with my best wishes.LOLJust finished getting dug out from the last storm.Another noreaster due tonight,with winds above 50 KPH and gusts of 84 KPH.The last storm blew a piece off the top of my green house.Will have to wait for warmer and better weather to repair it.-14 C here this morning. Interesting show,"The Curse of Oak Island".Oak Island is just one county above mine.I can remember reading the article ,they speak of on the show ,in the Readers Digest back in the 1960's.Thats what first hooked the two brothers looking for the treasure now. I remember a truck driver telling me sometime ago, about a trip he made to the southern States ,quite some time ago.Seems there had been a slight amount of snow and the State Police had the main road closed, because it was slippery.Any way, the truck driver stopped and the State Trooper was telling him the road was closed because it was slippery.About that time, the Trooper noticed the Nova Scotia plate on the front of his truck.The trooper then said to the driver,"I see you are from Canada ,you can go on through."The truck driver then told me,"I guess he thought ,with me being from Canada, I would be use to driving on slippery roads".That could be part of it,but I think there is a good chance, at that time of the year ,his truck was rigged up with the proper tires and such for slippery road driving,while the local trucks still had summer tires in use.Any way ,it makes a good story. Up to now the weather has been great.Just a couple of cold snaps and one snow storm,that rained off in a few days.Evertyhing has been open until this last big storm.Could get around in the woods, no problem, as the ground was clear.There were some rabbits(snowshoe hare) around and I was picking up a few,until those game hogs, with their rabbit dogs moved in and cleaned out the spots where I was picking up a few rabbits ,like a vacuum cleaner.What few were left, were so wild you could not get close enough to them to get a shot. I am afraid my knowledge of Alabama is rather spotty at best.Not too long ago, I have made friends with a fellow on another site ,who lives in SC.We have exchanged PMs ,letters and have spoken on the telephone a number of times.Its too bad he did not live closer, as I believe I would have a hunting buddy to go with. Most of my hunting buddies have either died,moved away or just do not go any more. I plan on using IMR 4227 for my 351 loads when I get everything together.I see that 17 grains of IMR 4227 with a 180 grain bullet is the suggested start load in the Lyman 45 edition loading hand book.I see in the front of the book I wrote my name and the date I bought it on.September 7,1979.That was not yesterday.LOL I believe the 351 bullets, that they will let me know when they come in ,are Graff.There is a place in Canada where I can order in Hawk 351 bullets,but they are much more expensive than the Graff bullets.From what I can see the Graff 351 bullets are all copper plated,while the Hawk 351 bullets have a bare nose. I would say that a 1 to 1 1/4 inch group at 50 yards was darn good.Most shots in the woods around here, are at most 75 yards .Yes, there is the odd shot longer ,on a barren or pole line,but most are well with in 75 yards.In my opinion there are not too many real deer hunters left around in my area any way.Most have a tree stand, with a clear field of fire cut out to where they have put put out 300 hundred pounds of carrots and or apples ,to bait them in at the most ,75 yards away.Then sit there with their .300 Winchester Magnum and call it deer hunting.LOLVery few go in the woods and really hunt them any more.You know, try to outsmart them,get down wind of them, etc.Too much work for that I guess.LOL In the Lyman book, it says the best results were obtained with IMR 4227 powder and 171 grain cast bullets. Thank-you for posting your results so far with you Model 07 rifle.Most interesting to see. Well I had best stop yapping.My finger is getting tired of typing.LOL
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Post by bollweevil on Feb 20, 2017 20:59:18 GMT -5
On top is my most recently acquired 1907, Then an older one that I have never shot, along with a few other vintage rifles.
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Post by 28gauge on Feb 20, 2017 21:42:10 GMT -5
Wow ,those are beauts.What Model and calibre is your Remington?Too bad you did not live closer.I would be very kind to you, and come over for a visit, and drool all over those beauts.LOL
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