jamsy
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by jamsy on Mar 6, 2013 15:18:09 GMT -5
Just found this great website after starting to research Winchester auto loaders. Really interested in the SL in .401. Handled a .351 the other day and thought " I need one". Then found they made a .401 version. I have the Redding dies on order all ready and intend to use 220 swift cases ( in hand already) for the brass. Have made 7.62 x 45 cases for VZ 52 rifle I have with excellent results from the 229 swift.
Will get serious about finding a rifle next month as I need to get my Savage 720 16 ga. up and running first.
Really great info here.!!
Best
Jamsy
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Post by hovercat on Mar 6, 2013 17:39:51 GMT -5
Welcome to the addiction.
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Mar 8, 2013 14:56:48 GMT -5
Jamsy, I will second the welcome, this is a small forum, but a lot of great info. I will give you a word of caution on the use of the .220 Swift brass, it has a thinner rim than a factory round, so you will need to size the cases to a length appropriate to the specific chamber of the rifle you get. This is so that you actually headspace on the case mouth. My .401 separated several brand new Fiocchi .401 SL cases about 3/4" forward of the rim, because the chamber in mine is a bit deeper than specification and it caused an excessive headspace condition. I am currently working on an alternate casing for a donor. These rifles are a lot of fun to shoot and contrary to popular belief, they are no slouches for power (anyone that argues is welcome to hold my targets, since they won't get hurt ) and I have no complaints for accuracy now that I am using IMR 4227. We can all attest that you will not likely own just one of these old guns, it's a delightful sickness. Mark
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jamsy
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Posts: 8
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Post by jamsy on Mar 17, 2013 14:27:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcomes!.
Sorry for the late reply as well. Been working way too much!.
I am interested in using IMR 4227. Is that usually a powder for revolvers? I have been using 4895 on most of my semi auto's with good results. Perhaps 4227 best replicates the original powder used back 1910? I think I may be on to a .401 out west. Need a few more weeks to get clear of current projects. What are folks using for bullets? .41 Magnums?
Also can anyone post a drawing of the complete cartage with dimensions?
Best
Jim
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Mar 19, 2013 9:45:47 GMT -5
Jim, IMR4227 seems to be pretty optimum for all of the WSL calibers and it has worked in all 4 very well for me. I will quickly state that there may be many others that will also be good choices, but when I find a load that works, I usually quit looking at that point. I am using a lead 240gr. bullet sized .408 (my bore slugs at .406), as for jacketed .410, there is a bit of disagreement as to the safety of squeezing a jacketed bullet down .004. I have not yet attempted to do this, so I cannot recommend it one way or the other. I have heard at least two individuals state that they fired .41Mag ammo (single loaded) with no ill effects. Safety is always foremost and you will need to make your own decisions.
Mark
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jamsy
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by jamsy on Apr 9, 2013 15:22:52 GMT -5
Mark,
Again thanks for additional info! I "think" I found a .401, and hope to see it next Friday. If it looks decent I will be picking it up.
From a verbal description it is in overall good shape. Forend has a crack ( seems normal for this firearm) Bore is bright,bluing near gone, clean of major dents and dings.. And seems to have a peep sight towards the back of the receiver. Will keep my fingers crossed
Have been looking at swedging down the .41 mag bullet to .406. seems doable. You mention possible safety concerns?
Best
Jim
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Apr 10, 2013 9:59:10 GMT -5
Jim, What I have done, if no wood is missing from the forearm, is to soak it in a TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) product. I use Behr 2 in 1 wood prep, which is available from the chain hardware stores or acetone mixed whith powdered white chalk to leach out the petroleum oils that have soaked into the wood. Then, once the stock is de-greased as much as possible and bone dry, I use a type of CA (cyano-acrylate) super glue that has a thin consistency about that of alchohol. It will wick into the wood and not only bond the crack, but it will fill the wood fibers and make them extremely strong. I can't guarantee that there isn't a better way, but it has worked wonders with 2 1907's and my 1910, along with numerous other stock projects that were delicate and inherently weak. The trick is to keep applying it to the wood until it stops absorbing and then remove any excess quickly and let it dry.
If, as you describe, the peep is towards the rear of the receiver and not on the tang, there is a chance you may have one with a Lyman 41SL sight. It means they drilled holes, but I think these are the nicest aperture sight out there.
As for bullets, the argument (not conclusively proven) is that swaging a jacketed bullets that much is that when you compress the jacket and core, the jacket could spring back and separate from the core. I don't know that I completely agree with that, but lead only bullets won't pose a problem. I plan on eventually experimenting with unsized .410 jacketed bullets in the future, but until I confirm that my "new" donor brass is suitably strong, I won't try anything questionable. Good luck, I hope you are successful with getting the 1910!
Mark
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jamsy
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by jamsy on Apr 11, 2013 16:31:05 GMT -5
Mark,
Thanks for the tips on the stock refinishing. Is the cyano-acrylate harder than the wood if a little light sanding is needed? Have refinished a few old stocks and used citric based varnish remover. If the fore end is too bad I will have a new one made along with a stock. I have some black walnut that would work well.
Chatted with a reloading friend of mine about swedging down .410 to .406 or so. He said main problem is bullet concentricity. two thou no problem, once you go four thou, bullet can get out of round, i.e you have wobbly bullets. Some may be O.K , most won't. He is a long range shooter though and I will be shooting 100yards or less. Probable going to have to try it to find out:) My friend also mention 38-40 bullets might work. Need to research this.
Absolutely hate the idea of drilling holes in receivers! However if it was done right I will live with it. Also seems correct for the period. Saw a few WIN sl's with scopes mounted on them. Something I would not do to this type of rifle. This is just me.
As for accuracy on the .401 what can one expect?
Best
Jim
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Apr 11, 2013 21:29:36 GMT -5
Jim, No problem sanding the wood and the repair usually stains as a dark line. True 38-40 bullets will be a .400 diameter. Concentricity errors would be minimal due to the bullet diameter and the typical ranges for a rifle like this, sorry, no Palma matches with the Winny. The 41SL would be a period unit and as I said, they are a fantastic sight. As for accuracy, the less than pristine one I kept, put 5 shots tightly overlapping at 25yds. Sorry that I don't have any longer distance testing, but I was concerned with function at the time and I was using, the less than ideal, rear notch.
Mark
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jamsy
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by jamsy on Apr 15, 2013 8:02:00 GMT -5
Hey Mark,
I put the sl in lay-away. It is pretty much as described but with a hairline crack in the wrist as well. Not that big of a deal. I have a friend that as some very old walnut that I think he will let me have to get the new fore-end and stock made. Everything else seems to function. Will get a borelight and see what the it mic's out to. I love this rifle. Feels like a Ruger scout rifle. ...Handy with some weight to it.
Thanks for your input on the accuracy. The Lyman sights are cool. Looks as though they did a decent job of installing them.
Will keep you updated on progress.
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Apr 15, 2013 13:20:41 GMT -5
Jim, Glad to hear it. Unless you are a gifted woodworker or a masochist, making a new forearm from scratch would be a royal PITA! There are several companies that offer semi-finished wood that requires fitting and even those are a handful for anyone that already has fitting experience. The drawback lies in the extremely small contact area between the wood and the receiver. I would strongly recommend giving a shot at repairing the original wood. If I had any idea how I could do it, the ideal material for the forearm would be a synthetic material like carbon fiber or fiberglass. That way you could have the strength in an extremely slim forearm, but at the cost of an original appearance. The butt stock is relatively easy to fit as long as the hole for the through bolt is already drilled. I made a spare butt stock for my 1910, but never had the courage to try making a new forearm or even fit a semi-finished example due to the intricate fitting. The only way to get it perfect would be to glass bed all of the contact points for an even distribution of the recoil forces. There is not much that you can do about making the forearm stronger unless you make it really fat and then they look silly. I will hope that yours will salvage and you can treat a replacement as a "want" vs. a "need" item and do the job at your leisure.
Mark
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jamsy
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by jamsy on Apr 16, 2013 10:12:50 GMT -5
Mark,
I love a challenge:) But first I will repair the stock and for-end so they are serviceable. West system makes some very good products for strengthening wood. Once I get a look at the fore-end I will know better how to tackle it. I have used a stock maker out of Oregon who has done some nice work for me and not overly expensive. So not thinking of doing the woodworking myself.
Also need to think about cases:)..again.
Best Jim
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