crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Oct 11, 2012 14:00:21 GMT -5
Just got to the range on Monday with my 1905 .32WSL and my 1907 .351. I am just curious if anyone has really ever tried to find out if the .351 can be capable of anything better than a few inches at 50yds? My 1905 has a scruffy bore from corrosive ammo and neglect, is in far worse shape, than my 1907 and has a miserable set of sights, with a buck-horn rear and a brass bead front, yet it will print shots touching at 50yds and at or below 2" at 100yds . On the other hand, the 1907 has a shiny bore, nice crown, mechanically pretty lightly used and has a nice Lyman 41SL rear aperture sight. It is hard pressed to do better than 2-3" at 50yds . I am shooting the 180gr .351 bullet from Graf and Sons which seems to be reasonably well made for a copper clad bullet. I will be using this same bullet for my 1905 in .35WSL, so if it patterns like the 1907, then I guess I can blame the bullet. I will gladly listen to any others experience with accuracy. For years I heard the stories of the .351 not being renowned for accuracy, but this seems pretty poor. I have yet to stretch out to 100yds with this rifle because I figured it wasn't worth chasing down the hits. Before anyone questions the loading consistency, these loads are on the low end for power, but they eject consistently. I still need to work a load up to original spec. but that shouldn't cause the bullets to be wandering around the target. I will look forward to hear from other members regarding their experience, especially if someone is willing to share the load data for their 2000yd match load ;D Thanks Mark
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Post by jrlesan on Oct 13, 2012 6:38:01 GMT -5
Mark, Understand that I move slowly, but I intend on shooting my 1907 with recent 351 (late production) ammo as a test and then working up loads to see what accuracy is obtainable. I think I'll order a box of .351 bullets from Huntington to use for load developement. Eventually, I may invest in a set of swage dies if my interest in the project doesn't wane. My '07 is 1956 production with a like new (I ran my Hawkeye thru it) bore. It is outfitted with a Lyman 66MA receiver sight which should give me a rough idea of potential. I won't be able to find time before 1NOV12 to do any testing, and then will have to wait on weather conditions, but I'll post results if you or anyone else is interested. JRLesan
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Post by hovercat on Oct 14, 2012 7:22:59 GMT -5
I do not have a .351, my interest on this site is .35wsl. However, my old Lyman manual says "At best our test accuracy with this cartridge could only be considered as fair. Best overall results were obtained with cast bullets and IMR 4227 powder" The accuracy load listed is 19.5gr IMR 4227 (compressed) @ 1904fps, a max load. using a cast bullet. No accuracy load for jacketed listed. I am getting great accuracy using unsized (.354) as cast lead bullets in my 1905. Have you slugged the barrel to see if it might be a bit oversize?
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Oct 14, 2012 19:17:41 GMT -5
hovercat, I haven't slugged the bore, I will get around to that to establish a baseline. I am interested in your .35 data, I haven't started putting together any brass or loads for that one yet. I just ordered a mould for my .401 and will have to borrow my friends lead pot to cast some slugs for that one. The Lyman mould is on backorder untill the end of November, so I will still be waiting for a while to light up the "Hammer of Thor" I might actually get the 1905 .35WSL shooting first. The first change to make all of these rifles a bit more consistent, is that I am going to pick up some 4227, since all 4 calibers have that powder listed in various data. I will wait to see how many real world experiences we get regarding the .351 for being able to hit a given barn whilst standing in it. Mark
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Post by 351winchester on Oct 14, 2012 20:33:29 GMT -5
Accuracy from my .351's are ok for hunting out to about 100 yards or so with factory ammo. You have to take into consideration that all factory ammo is loaded hot as Winchester was in hot competion with Remington. These guns were not made for accuracy. They were purposely made a little loose so they always worked (which they do). I have no doubt that you can get better groups by reducing the loads and trying different bullets. I benched one of my 07's with w/w ammo and got about 3" at 50 yds. which was close enough. That was 30 years ago when my eyes were much better too.
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Post by hovercat on Oct 16, 2012 20:52:43 GMT -5
My .35 wsl data is a bit sketchy but this is what I have. I took a lot of cut corners because this and everything I am doing lately is on a tight budget. Cases, .38spl RP (easier) and military (should last longer), range pick up. Rim dia .405, seems to feed easier than the recommended .410. Thinned and a bit of an extraction groove cut until it fits easily in a 9mm shellholder. Lyman manual calls for a Lyman #15, but I do not have one. Trimmed to 1.138. Sized in a .38spl die, full length, no expansion of the case mouth. Not needed and should extend case life. Bullets, Lyman 350319. Cast from wheelweights with a bit of tin added. Unsized, pan lubed and no gas check. No sizing die and found out that I do not need one. Over all length with bullet, 1.50. Primers Winchester small rifle. Powder 2400. I started with 10 grains, .5 under a listed .38spl load. It was barely enough to work the action and I was getting black streaks on the sides of the cases. Obviously not enough to expand the cases enough to seal, probably due to using the .38 instead of the proper sizing die. Worked up to 11.8 grains which gave the recoil a feel of authority, and gave pie plate accuracy, offhand, at 100 yards. I will try shooting from a rest next range trip, right now I am looking for a load where I can take it hunting and feel comfortable. there is a post in the reloading section that shows an old load data with a max of more than 15 grains 2400, I am not that brave. No chronograph, all I am going by is feel, and my cases are sealing well and show no pressure signs. I have only had 1 case jam (stovepipe) and i tossed it figuring that I had not cut it right. This is over 200+ shots, with loads from 10-11.8 gr. Please let me know how your loads work out, and do you have the actual, what it should be, cartridge dimansions?
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crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by crank on Oct 27, 2012 10:27:45 GMT -5
Sorry to take so long to reply. I finally slugged the bore on my .351 and it was dead on at .351 groove depth. I noted decreasing resistance as I came back into the 6 inches forward of the chamber. Possibly, just more worn at that point, but a very small change. HOWEVER!!! I measured several of the 180gr. gilded slugs and they barely made it to .350 dia. I know that .001 alone should not make the rifle inaccurate, but it centainly is a contributor and I will have to look for an alternative, preferably with a true jacket. Thank you for the .35WSL info, after doing some checking on that gun, I will keep it simpler and modify 38/357 brass. I also posted on another thread that someone started about Starline and the possibility of brass. After looking at specs. and doing some measurement on my .351, the .360 Dan Wesson case looks like an ideal parent case and should only require that the rim diameter be reduced.
Mark
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Post by skyman85 on Jun 16, 2013 22:12:18 GMT -5
Hello, I have two 1907 and one 1910. I took my rifles to the range and first shot it free hand at 50 yards and was very happy with accuracy....all near the bull-seye. I decided to try 90 yards with a rest and see what happened. To my surprise and shock all three bullets were cutting each other and was less than a one inch group...with open sights? They were all dead center of bull and 2 inches high. I personally believe they are much more accurate than they are given credit!I would feel very confident on deer up to 150 yards! I may even scope one of my guns..
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Post by blackbahart on Jun 17, 2013 21:36:12 GMT -5
Hi skyman85 I was wondering was that win factory or hand loads .I havent gotten real serious with the ones I posess .Just played at the 50yard ranges with hand loads and swaged bullets .Usually acomplish a 1 1/2 to 2inch groups
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Post by skyman85 on Jul 26, 2013 22:43:44 GMT -5
I achieved the best accuracy with the factory Winchester 180 Sp ammo. I have also had good success with cast bullets and bullets from Huntington supply. Hawks makes the best and most accurate bullets!Good luck!
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