crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by crank on Feb 7, 2012 17:10:44 GMT -5
A friend of mine who has a fascination with brass, has gotten involved with me to see if there is another option to .32WSL brass other than tearing up 32-20s. We found that if you run an 8mm sizing ball into a lubricated .30 Carbine case. you wind up with a .32WSL with an undersized rim. It will headspace nicely on the case mouth and extract about half-way out of the chamber when manually cycled (then the round slips out of the extractor). We have not put together any live rounds but we have made some action proving rounds with the Hornady 170gr .321 bullet and they feed smoothly. I could easily alter the extractor for more travel towards centerline, if manual extraction is a major concern. Since this is a blowback design, the extractor should be unnecessary during actual firing and the only concern is that the round will contact the ejector adequately to clear the action. I will try to have a chance to test fire some in a couple of weeks and pass on the results. For now, it is food for thought. We also have made a dummy for .351 which started life as a 5.56 which was cut to length and expanded with a .357 sizer ball. I want to feed these rifles, but I have no desire to spend a ridiculous amount of time and money to shoot them. I like the idea of simple modifications to commonly (cheap) available cases. I still have to find a convenient/affordable source of .351 projectiles, so that one will be after the tests with the 1905.
Mark
|
|
crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by crank on Feb 20, 2012 20:58:01 GMT -5
Okay, got to the range today with ten rounds (only had ten .321 bullets) of loaded ammo. The first round did not have enough recoil to cycle the action, but all of the remaining 9 rounds fired and ejected. Spent cases looked great, with no signs of any stress other than fire forming to the chamber. Overall, they were on the underpowered side but they proved a point. The ejection was less than a foot on the bench, but it kept us from chasing brass all over the place. It appeared that the bullets were staying in a narrow group at 50 yards, but my elevation was a mess because the front sight is a battered little nub, which was virtually impossible to see and be consistent. I will put a better front sight on it in addition to a Lyman 41SL and that should be a big help to trying to get a group. Once we get a good functioning load together, I will dig out a chronograph (new, but never used it) that I have buried somewhere in my gear. The gun was extremely pleasant to shoot and recoil was minimal. My friend is now itching to figure out the .351 problem, but the problem wee see is the irregular thickness of the brass at the case mouth. I will get a couple of boxes of bullets ordered for both of these and find out what we can do. I have Fiocchi .401 brass that is berdan primed, but got lucky and snagged some berdan primers that came available recently. That will save me from converting most of it for now and I just need a source of suitable bullets. I will try to keep this thread going with further info as I get more to pass along.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by mtmarfield on Mar 18, 2012 0:23:55 GMT -5
Greetings!
Congratulations on your success with .30 USC brass! I've had decent results with Buffalo Arms .32 WSL-from-.32 WCF brass, but I've really wanted to get .30 USC to work reliably; I don't like losing expensive brass, and this 1905 was meant to be my up-close "Varmint Rifle"! My current load uses the caseformed brass, water-quenched Ideal #321298 bullets, 2400, and Remington #7-1/2 Primers. With a bad rest, wind, factory sights, and my eyes, I managed 3-1/2" groups at 40 Yds.; I may have done better with a tang sight, but my Rifle wasn't factory tapped for it... I would rather modify brass than the extractor on your rifle, but that's just me. Personally, I'd LOVE to see StarLine come out with all of the SL brass. Good Luck, and keep us posted!
Be Well!
MTMarfield 3-17-12
|
|
crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by crank on Mar 21, 2012 9:52:06 GMT -5
MTMarfield, Welcome to the forum. I am glad to know that this round is still appreciated, it is still a viable number for hunting and a kick in the pants to shoot. I finally got off my butt to order dies from Buffalo. I got .351 dies by Redding and .32 dies from CH4D and I have had a set of Redding .401 dies for some time. If you note the variety of my posts, I am a bit of a scatterbrain with WAAAAAYYYYYY too many irons in the fire. The good news is that the friend I referred to has been a great catalyst to get off my rear end on some of these projects and get out with them. In regard to my family of Self Loaders: 1905- ugly but functional, could stand to be re-stocked (it can wait) and I need to install the Lyman 41 aperture along with a new front sight post. 1907- fully functional, not a beauty queen but 1000% better now that I stripped off the mahoghany colored varnish and repaired the three piece fore-end. Already has a lyman 41. 1910- worn exterior, mint internals and needs to be reassembled. I have made and fitted a new butt stock but have been too lazy to find a way to flatten the butt to install a recoil pad or consider replacing the forearm (original is serviceable). Somewhere I have a tang sight for it. The biggest problem I have is that I have a regular job and do all of my work in the odd hours of opportunity when I can work in my garage without upsetting the War Department. To add to my eccentricity, I have been actively resurrecting several Winchester lever actions and a Low Wall, with a number of dormant oddball projects such as a Remington 14 1/2R in 38-40. I got lucky recently by upgrading my mill to a Bridgeport 9x42 and the addition of a Miller TIG welder (long overdue!). These have significantly improved my capabilities and helped speed up quite a few projects. This is still a fairly small forum, but with people like Hardrada55, the is a wealth of knowledge available. My only claim to fame is being a gunsmith for the past quarter of a century, but I love what I do. I agree that Starline would be ideal for a run of Self Loader brass, but I hope they could do a run of .256 Win mag also. We will all look forward to anything you can share with the rest of the forum. Take care.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by mtmarfield on Mar 23, 2012 21:52:50 GMT -5
Greetings!
You're doing better than I am! My 1905,.32WSL is a first year, and still relatively nice; the 1907 is also a first year, but the receiver is turning. I have another 1905, .32WSL, but it received a "$10.00 Buffing-wheel re-blue", a slather of varnish, and a sewer-pipe bore. I was looking for a replacement barrel to resurrect it, but no luck. My first two, being first-year, aren't drilled/tapped for Lyman peeps, and I don't want to alter them. I'm really happy with the 1905, .32WSL; a little load development, and I believe that I'll have a nice "Semi-Auto .32-40 Win/Ballard" to trapse the Desert with. The easiest to make cartridges for the 1905 would probably be the .35WSL chambering; .38AMU would probably work without any modification, except perhaps a kiss with a case trimmer. That is, if you have a supply of .38AMU, and you wanted to use it! Otherwise, a .38Spl lathe-modified with a rim reducer/extractor groove cutter... Tell me about your Remington 14-1/2 in .38WCF! Have you shot it? That's a dandy revolver cartridge, and I'd been hoping to bump into something offbeat in a longgun that's chambered for it, but the wallet isn't willing... I've managed to get .30USC / .32WSL dummies to feed through the action; I have yet to find the powder charge to make it happen, however. Herc (Alliant!) 2400 is the powder that I've decided to work with, and with the last session using Buffalo Arms .32WCF/.32WSL Brass, cycling was reliable and brisk; I may back off 1/2gr or so, if it'll get me better groups. My eyes aren't on speaking terms with anything other than peep sights, so it may just be a case of my working with what I've got... We'll see! I believe that the Gun Digest 1962 (1964?) had a write-up on the .256WM, and how to make case forming dies. The Marlin 62 was chambered for that cartridge; I've got one in .30USC. I'm actually delighted to have found this Site; there aren't too many SL Shooters out there to share info with! I'll keep you posted on the .30USC/.32WSL brass cartridge situation. Be Well! MTMarfield 3-23-12
|
|
crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by crank on Mar 24, 2012 21:09:36 GMT -5
MT, Okay, first off, there are two 1905 barrels on Gun Broker right now. I don't know if they are good enough for replacements, but it can't hurt to check them out. Unfortunately, there isn't much to share about the 14 1/2, it's missing a magazine tube and the forearm and had a heavy patina. I never shot it and immediately stripped it down to start refinishing the metal. The bore is half decent with no shine, but strong rifling. As for the 38-40, you could say I like that caliber just a teeny bit, with a Low Wall that had sewer pipe 32-20 barrel that I sent out to be re-bored to .40cal and I chambered it in 38-40. I took a Frankengun 1892 that had a smooth bored 1894 barrel and turned and chambered a Green Mountain gunsmith barrel blank into a 16" Trapper in 38-40. I have three other 38-40's, an original 1892 rifle, a Colt SAA first generation and a Colt New Service. I was at the range yesterday, testing function and accuracy with the 1892 and Low Wall. You couldn't have knocked the grin off my face with a crowbar, I love that cartridge! Now they can get torn down to send various parts out to have markings cut/re-cut as needed. I will try and remember to find out what powder and charge my friend loaded those test rounds for the .32SL, if it helps you explore what will be an optimum load. I noticed you have an Evans, that is just a wee bit on the odd side, I like your taste. I am a very slow typist, so that is all for now.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by mtmarfield on Mar 25, 2012 17:31:09 GMT -5
Greetings!
Yes, I suppose you are a begrudging .38WCF fan... Actually, GrandDad had posthumously started me on the .38WCF road: apparently, in the early 50's, Granny had bought him a First Gen SAA that Dad recalled in his youth as looking "VERY nice"; it wore a 5-1/2"Bbl, Blue/CC, and chambered for, of course, the .38WCF. He shot one box each of Western and UMC through it, and after a few years, sold it for what Granny had paid for it: $25. I found the old tobacco can containing the brass that he kept when Dad and I were cleaning out the garage. I was instantly intrigued with the odd bottleneck brass; in the mid 80's, I had my local garage-gunshop proprietor, an indulgent retired cop, order me an early EMF Bisley SAA in that chambering. I shoots very well, although I haven't shot it for years. When I was working at B&B Sales (gunshop), I acquired a tight Colt's New Service in .38WCF that is a tackdriving fiend. About eight years ago, I informed Dad that I was going to "right a wrong", and get the latest "Nth-Generation" Colt's SAA just like GrandDads. The new SAA is nice: it has the little horse stamped in the frame, etc; it could have been fitted a bit more carefully, but otherwise, it's just fine. That's my tale! I'd love to receive your buddy's .32WSL reloading data, and I'll investigate the barrels on GunBroker; ANYTHING would be better than the sewer-pipe my first .32WSL has on it now!! Thanks & Nice chatting with you! Be Well!
M.T.Marfield
|
|
crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by crank on Mar 31, 2012 22:06:05 GMT -5
MT, Sorry for the delay, the load we used was 12.5 grains of 4227 with a 170gr .321 bullet. That was in a .30 carbine case that had an 8mm expander ball run into it and nothing else. Like I said, the first round failed to eject, but all of the subsequent rounds ejected a short distance from the rifle. Hope that works for you.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by mtmarfield on Apr 1, 2012 18:30:42 GMT -5
Greetings!
With the modified .32WCF brass from Buffalo Arms, I used 9.0 gr. 2400; if I was to use 2400 in the thicker walled .30USC, I would start at 8.0 / 8.5 gr. Again, my bullets are cast from my old Ideal #321298, water-quenched WW; a jacketed soft-point should probably be started with a lower powder charge. Your cycling issues, where you state that the first shot won't feed the following round from the magazine, but subsequent cartridges will, "MAY" indicate friction caused by the cartridges, under the magazines spring tension, dragging on the bottom of the Bolt. A slight increase of powder "MAY" overcome this... Note the use of "MAY" in the above sentence: we reloaders of vintage cartridges are a bit on our own, when we work with little-known / unpopular cartridges from LONG ago. Involve the most knowledgeable handloaders that you know: seek out people that work with "wildcat" cartridges, do caseforming, or otherwise resurrect the firearms of old. Old IDEAL Reloading Handbooks are a boon, but must be carefully utilized, as a LOT of the old data was later proven to be unsafe. In other words: be very careful!! A fellow named Henderson (?) wrote a book about reloading for the WSL Cartridges; Dad has it; when I get ahold of him, I'll send you the complete title. it's not bad, and I suggest that you seek it out. Another valuable book is "Winchester for Over a Century" by Bill West, wherein he discusses, among others, the WSL rifles and his reloads for them. If you have difficulties finding these books, let me know, and I'll make copies for you. Until Next Time!!
M.T.Marfield
|
|
crank
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by crank on Apr 2, 2012 9:31:08 GMT -5
MT, When I said the first round, I meant only one round failed to eject. Out of ten rounds, the other nine worked great, just not very vigorously. We wanted to start light and work up to a good reliable load with enough power to equal the original loading.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by mtmarfield on Apr 2, 2012 19:31:31 GMT -5
Greetings!
Great! That's how I do it, as well.
MTMarfield
|
|
|
Post by blackbahart on Jun 8, 2013 10:56:53 GMT -5
I see this is an older post ,so this may be common knoledge by now but here it goes anyway
I have been using 9mm win mag brass from starline for the 35wsl.I made up a flat shell holder and I lube the brass and pre lube my die with imp sizeing wax and press the case into my CH die so brass is flush in die (rim doesn't get sized)and pop them back out and wala /trim and now ready to load 35wsl brass that you don't stress when you can't find all the spent cases .
AS also mentioned for the 32wsl people are using 32-20 win brass .I also do use the 32-20 brass ,but found in my rifle and another example the chambers rim area is large enough and the mag also accepts the brass with no rim turning . So for this one I just run through the sizer and trim to length and load ,the easiest! And again cheap and easy to source
|
|