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Post by calfed on Oct 24, 2019 20:33:49 GMT -5
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Post by Hardrada55 on Oct 25, 2019 10:15:57 GMT -5
It's got the notches in the barrel jacket!
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Post by calfed on Oct 25, 2019 18:27:38 GMT -5
It's got the notches in the barrel jacket! Yep, I noticed that. I'm wondering if this could be some kind of transition rifle between the early and late style. The notches in the barrel jacket are supposed to be late model features, but the placement of the lettering on my rifle is supposed to be an early feature
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Post by calfed on Nov 10, 2019 14:42:27 GMT -5
I'm interested in finding out, if possible, what route these rifles took to get into the private market.
The FBI is not known for selling off their weapons to the public
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Post by Hardrada55 on Nov 10, 2019 16:54:58 GMT -5
The estate of a late collector named McClary from New Jersey sold this case of ammo years ago and described it as having been surplus from the FBI.
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Post by blackbahart on Nov 12, 2019 3:11:11 GMT -5
nice wood crate and pristine boxes ,not going to see that any more today
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Post by calfed on Nov 13, 2019 11:59:44 GMT -5
The estate of a late collector named McClary from New Jersey sold this case of ammo years ago and described it as having been surplus from the FBI. View AttachmentVery interesting.
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Post by 351winchester on Nov 15, 2019 13:26:22 GMT -5
Back in the day it was not uncommon for ammo from different agencies to just walk away. Guns too. The front sight isn't right, but it could have been changed, but why since it would require a higher front sight to work with the receiver sight.
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Post by calfed on Nov 17, 2019 18:49:52 GMT -5
Back in the day it was not uncommon for ammo from different agencies to just walk away. Guns too. The front sight isn't right, but it could have been changed, but why since it would require a higher front sight to work with the receiver sight. [/b] There are two types of FBI Model 81's...an "early" type and a "late" type. This is one of the oddities of this rifle...it appears to have both the features of the early and late FBI rifles. thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=867The "early" type had the Lyman 41 sight, no rear barrel sight, a high front sight blade and the "Remington" logo and serial number moved over and "stacked" under the Model name ("Woodsmaster") I have a "civilian", non-FBI Model 81 that displays the usual receiver markings... You can see the difference. The FBI requested the change because the Lyman 41 sight covered the serial number when the markings were in the usual configuration. You can see that my new Model 81 has the receiver markings of the early FBI model and those markings are unique to the early FBI model. The "late" type FBI model 81's had regular barrel mounted sights and the receiver markings were in the usual configuration. The chief distinguishing feature of a late FBI model 81 and a non-FBI model 81 is grooves put in the barrel jacket that were used to induction braze the barrel jacket to the barrel jacket head. This apparently was done by request of the FBI because the barrel jacket head was being shot loose by heavy use. These grooves are unique to FBI model 81's. If you look closely, you can see that my new Model 81 has these grooves... I've learned that some of the early FBI model 81's did not have any holes for the rear barrel sight and some did have the rear barrel sight holes, covered by a Lyman sight blank. It seems to me that there are several possibilities for my rifle... One, it is an original "early type" FBI model 81 that someone later modified by adding the rear barrel sight, either by removing the rear sight blank and adding a sight, or by having the holes drilled and tapped. However, this would not explain the barrel shroud grooves of the later FBI model 81. Alternatively...since the Model 81 was a "take down" type rifle and the barrel and fore end could be removed from the receiver, it seems possible that at some point in its life, some one at the FBI accidentally mated the barrel and fore end from a "late" FBI model 81 to the receiver of an early FBI model 81 and it was never corrected. A third possibility is that at sometime in its FBI service the Bureau returned an early FBI model 81 to Remington to have the brazing done to update it to the later standard.
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Post by calfed on Jan 4, 2020 13:36:52 GMT -5
I finally brought home the rifle and got to look at it more closely. The rifle displays characteristics of both the early model FBI model 81 ("stacked" model, manufacturer and serial number markings on the receiver, Lyman 41 sight) and the later FBI model 81 (grooves in the barrel jacket, standard rear sight, etc). One theory that I had was that since these are take down rifles, perhaps someone at the FBI had at one time mated a late barrel/forend to an early model receiver and no one had ever corrected it. Well, scratch that theory...the barrel yoke bears the same serial number as the receiver... So the mystery continues. I also noted that the screws on the receiver have been staked. I've not seen that in any other Model 81...even the few FBI model 81's that I've seen Can anyone identify the numbers stamped on the barrel yoke? Finally, the barrel code seems to be "NNO". If I'm interpreting this correctly, that would indicate July, of 1944, which seems late for an early FBI model.
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Post by blackbahart on Jan 7, 2020 0:52:55 GMT -5
quite interesting ,never noticed the cuts before
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Post by calfed on Jan 9, 2020 12:20:25 GMT -5
quite interesting ,never noticed the cuts before Thanks, BB I'm digging in to the history of this rifle and hope to find out more.
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Post by 351winchester on Apr 23, 2020 19:04:04 GMT -5
That's a nice piece of history. I read an account where the FBI asked Remington if they could load their .30 Rem. to the same ballistics as the .351 Winchester.
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Post by calfed on Nov 1, 2020 15:15:42 GMT -5
Thanks, .351...I've heard the same thing.
Cam Woodall, site administrator over on "The Great Model 8&81 Forum" offered this as an explanation for the oddities of my rifle. It makes perfect sense.
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