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Post by boltman on May 29, 2017 9:37:36 GMT -5
Looks like I made an error. " A 50 Caliber Repeating Shotgun" by "Almo" is in the January 1910 Outdoor Life, page 90 Has anyone been able to locate this article?
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Post by boltman on May 29, 2017 21:10:37 GMT -5
The .50 Express (.50-110 case) is 2.4 inches long. If the 32 gauge shell is 2.5 inches, it makes sense it would be too long to cycle through the action. As we know (and I have one) the .50 Express cartridge came in shot form with a variation where the shot was contained below the case mouth (vs. the wooden head style). As I have also discussed here, a .50/110 shot cartridge as well as a full bulleted .50/110 cartridge will chamber in the Camp .50 (but of course is way too long to fit in the action or cycle. Given this is a straight wall case, logic suggests it could not be a variation of the .50/70 or the .50/95.
Now, we've covered the shot aspect, but the Camp .50 was also for, "ball" as well....
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Post by fire15vp on Jul 7, 2017 16:06:28 GMT -5
From what I can find the rim diameter of 50-70 and 50-95 is larger than 50-110. I have a letter from Pierre DuPont stating that the shot cartridges were long with a celluiod top. I would really like to find one to complete my collection.
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Post by boltman on Jul 8, 2017 8:54:10 GMT -5
From what I can find the rim diameter of 50-70 and 50-95 is larger than 50-110. I have a letter from Pierre DuPont stating that the shot cartridges were long with a celluiod top. I would really like to find one to complete my collection. Yes, the photos I posted showed where I tried a 50-70, 50-95 and 50-110 in my rifle (shotgun), the .50-70's rim was too large to clear the ejection port. However, the .50-95 worked fine. I would also like to find a cartridge and wouldn't be something to find the box as well. The letter from DuPont - did it state how the head stamp was marked? I remain very interested in finding the Outdoor Life article from 1910. One would think there is the strong likelihood the article would discuss the cartridges used. How can we find this article? University libraries?
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Post by fire15vp on Jul 14, 2017 14:30:43 GMT -5
I have read the 1910 outdoor life article the article states that the 30 remington was available and that the 25 and 35 would be in production soon. The article is a brief gun writers report less than a half page if my memory is correct. It is too early to find any reference to the 50. The directors discussed a shotgun and a 22 rifle in many of their meetings but the camp gun was not introduced until 1912. The directors talked about testing of the 22 so at least one was made. I have most of the copies of the 1909 and 1910 blue prints. The only three calibers listed are 25, 30 and 35. As too duPont's letter he did not discuss the head stamp. I have several 35's head stamped SA. George fink states in some of his writings that he had some 30's head stamped SA. I have never seen one. Just in case you do not know the combo tool used a 35 casing. Fink told me that the head stamped cartridges were for salesman's demo purposes shipped in bulk. I think the bulk shipment is correct but I find it strange that the most common case is the 35 when the first few months of production were the 30. I digress the camp 50 had to be a 50-95. One individual has told me he inherited his gun with several unloaded shells. I have asked him for pictures but so far no luck. he says that all of the cases are marked 50 EX. In talking with my cartridge collector friends, they tell me that the 50 EX is 50-95 and no one that I have talked to has ever seen a box for any SA's. I would give my eye teeth to have a picture of a loaded shell for the book that is almost ready.
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Post by boltman on Aug 13, 2017 18:49:57 GMT -5
I have read the 1910 outdoor life article the article states that the 30 remington was available and that the 25 and 35 would be in production soon. The article is a brief gun writers report less than a half page if my memory is correct. It is too early to find any reference to the 50. The directors discussed a shotgun and a 22 rifle in many of their meetings but the camp gun was not introduced until 1912. The directors talked about testing of the 22 so at least one was made. I have most of the copies of the 1909 and 1910 blue prints. The only three calibers listed are 25, 30 and 35. As too duPont's letter he did not discuss the head stamp. I have several 35's head stamped SA. George fink states in some of his writings that he had some 30's head stamped SA. I have never seen one. Just in case you do not know the combo tool used a 35 casing. Fink told me that the head stamped cartridges were for salesman's demo purposes shipped in bulk. I think the bulk shipment is correct but I find it strange that the most common case is the 35 when the first few months of production were the 30. I digress the camp 50 had to be a 50-95. One individual has told me he inherited his gun with several unloaded shells. I have asked him for pictures but so far no luck. he says that all of the cases are marked 50 EX. In talking with my cartridge collector friends, they tell me that the 50 EX is 50-95 and no one that I have talked to has ever seen a box for any SA's. I would give my eye teeth to have a picture of a loaded shell for the book that is almost ready. This is all interesting. Regarding the article, what you say about the 1910 date makes a lot of sense given the Camp .50 came later. However, it was my understanding that the article is titled something to the effect of, "A .50 caliber repeating shotgun"? Regarding the chambering, the .50-95 shot cartridge I have is stamped 50-EX. I also have two .50-110 cartridges (one with the standard lead bullet and the other is a crimped shot cartridge). Both are headstamped, "50-110 EX" I don't own a Model 1876 Winchester in .50-95, but have some doubt the much longer .50-110 would chamber. However, a .50-110 cartridge will chamber in my Camp .50. I will also say I find it odd Standard Arms would use the much older and outdated .50-95 cartridge when the more modern .50-110 was available in the currently chambered in the Winchester 1886 of that time. I'm left with one of my original theories - perhaps the question is not what cartridge was the Camp .50 chambered in, but rather what cartridge wasn't it chambered in? Maybe they chambered it intentionally such that several different cartridges would work. As evidence, I submit that more than one cartridge does fit.
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