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Post by rotarywinguh1h on Dec 14, 2014 4:21:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion. Looking them up right now.
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Post by fire15vp on Feb 27, 2015 10:27:50 GMT -5
Does anyone out there know of, seen, or own any of the following: 1) A calibre other than 25, 30, 35 Remington or 50 shot shell. 2) A 50 Calbre shot shell for the camp 50 3) Any original boxes for the guns, bullets or accouterments 4) Any Standard Arms head stamped cartridges other 35 Remington 5) Seen a 22 caibre gun made by SA's 6) Seen one marked Philadelphia, Standard Arms Manfactuing Co. or Standard Arms Comapny without Wilmington, DEL
I currently own 23 of these guns, handled many more and viewed at least 200 auctions, I have never seen any of the above referenced questions answered.
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jsafe
New Member
WARNING , WARNING , I know of 3 of these 30 cal have gone full auto no warning. EMPTY mag no stop.
Posts: 2
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Post by jsafe on May 1, 2015 21:44:52 GMT -5
Signed onto this board awhile back and have popped in now and then to check things out. Figure it's time to get involved. I started buying Gun Digests new each year as they came out more years ago than I care to admit. I've also hunted down older ones until I'm only a handful away from a full set. That's germane because I'm blaming this whole thing on Layne Simpson's article, back in like the 1987 edition. If I hadn't read that several times over, I wouldn't've even known what those goofy-looking things are... So, I've got a Standard as described in the subject line. Actually, at one time a few years ago I had two of them. The other one was in sorry condition and I eventually let it go. For one thing, the bore and chamber were pitted to the point where fired brass looked rough. Not that the one I still have is any great prize to gaze upon, having some bad areas of external pitting, but at least it doesn't mess up the brass (aside from giving it a beating). One of the used gun price guides said that after Standard went under, some were completed from parts by Numrich. I've formed a tentative theory that the one I kept might be one of those "put together" guns. It has a different style of bolt hold-open than the other had (that one used the flat spring with a button on the end as is still sold as a part by Numrich/GPC while this one has a spring-loaded plunger housing attached to the side of the receiver), the head of the gas piston has a ringed cylindrical shape to it that resembles what's seen in some later gas operated arms (the other was more like an engine valve, with a profile like the bell of a trumpet) and the safety lever is larger and has a knurled extension. I've also read that Standard Arms worked on improving their guns pretty much up to the end, so...I don't know. Hopefully someone here can help in that regard. As mentioned in passing earlier, I've shot both standards I've owned and still take the remaining one out once in a while. I can confirm the report in another thread about ejection being "forceful" and pretty much straight up. Shooting from a covered firing line usually results in brass bouncing from the underside of the roof directly over the bench. However, I'm inclined to start mostly operating it in pump mode in the future, as the "buffer" is just a pair of springs attached to the rear of the bolt and mine look somewhat deformed and splayed towards the sides. It's already past when I normally get to bed. I'll try and get some decent pictures taken and posted tomorrow, including some of the oddities mentioned earlier and of the internals.
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jsafe
New Member
WARNING , WARNING , I know of 3 of these 30 cal have gone full auto no warning. EMPTY mag no stop.
Posts: 2
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Post by jsafe on May 1, 2015 21:52:51 GMT -5
Signed onto this board awhile back and have popped in now and then to check things out. Figure it's time to get involved. I started buying Gun Digests new each year as they came out more years ago than I care to admit. I've also hunted down older ones until I'm only a handful away from a full set. That's germane because I'm blaming this whole thing on Layne Simpson's article, back in like the 1987 edition. If I hadn't read that several times over, I wouldn't've even known what those goofy-looking things are... So, I've got a Standard as described in the subject line. Actually, at one time a few years ago I had two of them. The other one was in sorry condition and I eventually let it go. For one thing, the bore and chamber were pitted to the point where fired brass looked rough. Not that the one I still have is any great prize to gaze upon, having some bad areas of external pitting, but at least it doesn't mess up the brass (aside from giving it a beating). One of the used gun price guides said that after Standard went under, some were completed from parts by Numrich. I've formed a tentative theory that the one I kept might be one of those "put together" guns. It has a different style of bolt hold-open than the other had (that one used the flat spring with a button on the end as is still sold as a part by Numrich/GPC while this one has a spring-loaded plunger housing attached to the side of the receiver), the head of the gas piston has a ringed cylindrical shape to it that resembles what's seen in some later gas operated arms (the other was more like an engine valve, with a profile like the bell of a trumpet) and the safety lever is larger and has a knurled extension. I've also read that Standard Arms worked on improving their guns pretty much up to the end, so...I don't know. Hopefully someone here can help in that regard. As mentioned in passing earlier, I've shot both standards I've owned and still take the remaining one out once in a while. I can confirm the report in another thread about ejection being "forceful" and pretty much straight up. Shooting from a covered firing line usually results in brass bouncing from the underside of the roof directly over the bench. However, I'm inclined to start mostly operating it in pump mode in the future, as the "buffer" is just a pair of springs attached to the rear of the bolt and mine look somewhat deformed and splayed towards the sides. It's already past when I normally get to bed. I'll try and get some decent pictures taken and posted tomorrow, including some of the oddities mentioned earlier and of the internals.
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Post by fire15vp on May 5, 2015 9:36:48 GMT -5
Is this first hand knowledge or were you told about this? Do you have any idea as to what caused it?
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Post by molasses on Aug 12, 2015 8:49:26 GMT -5
I hadn't visited the site in ages, so jsafe's posts were new to me when I got back on here last night.
I could see where maybe a Standard could go full-auto. Especially with a whole lot of old, dried-out, varnish-ized gun oil mixed with crud in the trigger mechanism so the sear would be tardy/weak/not coming up completely while trying to catch the striker. [sarcasm]Not that that could ever be the case with a gun made a century ago and probably left without proper care and cleaning for a good chunk of that time.[/sarcasm]
Could also see the possibility of a broken-off firing pin tip getting wedged into the firing pin opening on the bolt face so it would slam fire.
Or the sear engagement surfaces breaking/getting peened/wearing down until they weren't catching any longer.
Personally, I'm not shooting mine much anymore in semiauto mode due to concerns over finding replacement parts in the event of breakage.
But anyone that shoots stuff this old should definitely be taking the possibility of wear, condition, and cleanliness causing issues that could be dangerous into consideration.
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Post by fire15vp on Aug 13, 2015 8:54:32 GMT -5
I could understand that a slam fire could happen from wear and tear and lack of attention. The previous writer stated that it went full auto I would like to hear from someone that had it happen to them or witnessed it.
I do not remember if I addressed this before but Standard Arms final bankruptcy was in 1916, Numrich arms started business in 1950 they may have assembled a few but after 34 years I can not imagine there inventory was huge. There was a gun store in Texas that had parts as early as the 40's and into the seventy's. I believe that they assembled at least two camp guns. I have a letter from them to a customer stating that they had two camp guns and enough parts to assemble two more. I have a camp gun with the cast bronze slide. None of the other camp guns that I have seen have this, my best guess that it was one of the assembled guns which brings the total up to 26.
With all of that said it just shows that gun digest is wrong about Numrich Arms. I am looking for the bankruptcy sale records to see who actually purchased the parts. There were several large gunsmith shops in the Philly area that specialized in custom work in the late teens and early twenties such as Sedgley. I would think it would be a safe bet that we will eventually find records showing a mid-atlantic connection.
I did see the pictures about your unique gun. I would tend to believe that these changes were gunsmith alterations. I have a really nice one that some gun smith put a lever on the gas valve. It makes me wonder why Standard did not do it from the beginning.
There is so much wrong about the written record of Standard Arms it is incredible. I just received a large box of research assembled over the last 50 years. It includes production records and board of directors meeting minutes. One myth I want to put to bed now is that they never made a 32 caliber gun. It does not appear in the production reports to the directors. Also it was stated in a 1910 meeting that they would concentrate on the 30 and 35.The records that I have indicate that they assembled a total of 3,470 guns. I have to organize all of these records better so as to try to figure out the true story. I hope to be able to put something in print some day.
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Post by rotarywinguh1h on Aug 13, 2015 10:47:53 GMT -5
I went to a local gun repair shop and bought about a 3" long spring for just $2. I can make both new springs from it so it will be as good as new. This new spring fits even better and more snugly than the original spring that was in it. All I needed to do was cut it to length and slightly bend the end so it's pressing on the full ring of the spring and not just on the point where it was cut. {Adjusted the cut so the spring will be the correct length even after the end tip is slightly bent to make a complete ring to seat at both ends.}
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Post by rotarywinguh1h on Aug 13, 2015 12:38:30 GMT -5
I am considering selling my Standard Arms .30 I was told by a gunsmith at Cabela's that it's worth $2,600. Any offers? I'm getting older and admit I'll probably never go hunting with it again and my son has no interest in collecting guns nor does he seem to understand the importance of taking care of collectors items as everything I've saved for him and given him in the past... he's just opened them up and given everything to kids to play with and tear them up. {ie: Star wars original collectibles and many more collectible items.} So I would prefer to sell it to someone who would both appreciate it and take care of it as it should be taken care of. When my Dad and I used to go hunting, my Dad used the Standard 30 to hunt with and I used the 30-40 Krag with a scope. This one has a small law enforcement shield on the side of the butt stock that someone filed down flush so it's just the flattened shape of the badge shield now. {My Dad, and many relatives, were cops many years ago.} My Dad told me he got it from his father. Years after my Dad passed, an uncle of mine... who was a Washington State Trooper... told me that it had been his and my Dad had gotten it from him. {They used to go hunting together back in the 40's and 50's. I remember being told many years ago how my state trooper uncle used to go poaching back then. You know how old family stories and myths go. Ha ha ha...} Where do you say the serial numbers are inside and outside? I can't find any numbers on mine anywhere and can't see any place they may have been filed off. My bolt is out in my shop right now so I can't see it and will check it later for a serial number when I get it in my hands again.
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Post by Hardrada55 on Aug 13, 2015 14:56:00 GMT -5
Pictures? At least that's the place to start.
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Post by fire15vp on Aug 13, 2015 15:25:59 GMT -5
Since I currently have twenty three of these guns including a camp gun I wish I could get $2,600.00. I have been offered two prototypes one for $3,500 and the other for $2,500. Camp guns are selling in the range of $2,000 to $3,000. If you go to www.gunbroker.com. There are several guns for sale with a low of $400 to a high of $1,950. Pictures would be a great start, Do you have the take-down tool and is it complete? Do the internal serial numbers match the tang? Is there anything special about the gun or its serial number (very low 2 digit or very high over 9200)?
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