Winchester 1910 Russian Contract Rifle

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rmh
Junior Member

Posts: 95

Winchester 1910 Russian Contract Rifle Jan 23, 2009 13:31:40 GMT -5

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Post by rmh on Jan 23, 2009 13:31:40 GMT -5

Here's an interesting 1910 rifle that came up for sale awhile ago with WWI Russian provenance. I believe I posted about this rifle awhile ago on the old Gunboards message boards seeking what they knew about the markings, but unfortunately the thread has now been lost to posterity.

From what I recall, some controversy came up regarding the Cyrillic "YJ" stamping indicative of the JP Morgan order on behalf of the Russian government, since no record, either military reference or Winchester factory reference was used to validate the significance of the marking. Much information in the public domain concerning the WWI use of the Winchester self loading rifles is unsubstantiated apart from the Winchester factory records...

www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=1888

(Legally, I should not be posting these photos since they are the property of JoeSalter.com but I thought these would be useful to the collector as well as useful in sparking off a discussion of this particular rifle and WWI use of the 1910)

wazza2222
New Member

Posts: 30

Winchester 1910 Russian Contract Rifle Jan 24, 2009 17:47:45 GMT -5

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Post by wazza2222 on Jan 24, 2009 17:47:45 GMT -5

Interesting old bird! the 'home guard' stamp is a bit suspect in my opinion, my home guard Enfields are simply stamped H.G. with a rack number. I had to laugh at Mr Houze's assertion that the Russians used these rifles on the 'Eastern Front'... That would be against the Japanese then? (or, what the hell were the Austrians doing in Korea!) lol

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

Winchester 1910 Russian Contract Rifle Jan 25, 2009 10:46:20 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2009 10:46:20 GMT -5

During World War I the term "Eastern Front" was in reference to the position of Germany and Austria (the "Central Powers") to the rest of the world. As the "Western Front" refers the lines of battle to the west of the Central Powers (basically, the borders between France and Germany), the "Eastern Front" refers to the lines of battle to the east of the Central Powers (basically, the border between Germany and Russia).

The same holds true for World War II.

Jim

wazza2222
New Member

Posts: 30

Winchester 1910 Russian Contract Rifle Feb 7, 2009 19:16:38 GMT -5

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Post by wazza2222 on Feb 7, 2009 19:16:38 GMT -5

What a very 'Eurocentric' view Jim! are you going to tell us that the second world war started in 1941 now?
If the Russians were using a weapon on their Eastern Front why on earth would they be referring to their front with Germany?
Likewise, 'The Great War' was not referred to as "World War 1" (and still isn't unless you are wathcing the History Channel) at that time and if you wish to take the same view of Geopolitical reference, your 'Western Front' was actually referred to as 'France' and the others as 'Theatres'

It's all in the perspective isn't it?

Waz

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